An Interview With Bosnian Defense Minister Sifet Podžić

By: Daniel Miller

On March 9, 2022, I interviewed Sifet Podžić, the current Minister of Defense for Bosnia and Herzegovina (BiH). The former seasoned Army commander was the first Chief of Joint Staff of the Armed Forces of BiH, and once served as Ambassador to Bulgaria. With the help of a translator, I asked him questions about the growing tensions within the borders of BiH and the safeguards that are in place to quell any type of potential conflict that would reignite the flames from the Yugoslav wars of the 1990s.

On December 14, 1995, the signing of the Dayton Peace Accord effectively ended the Bosnian Serb’s reign of terror and genocide in Bosnia and Herzegovina (BiH), which lasted almost four years. While the peace agreement ended sanguinary conflict, it didn’t leave anyone in the country of BiH happy about the new demarcations and structure of the government. It's easy to understand why, because it consists of three presidencies, two semi-autonomous zones—BiH and Republika Srpska (RS), and the autonomous Brčko district.

One of those presidents is Milorad Dodik, a Bosnian Serb whose inflammatory nationalist rhetoric has raised concern for the European Union and the people of BiH.

A bit of background information is needed to understand what the Minister is talking about in a few of his responses. The Peace Implementation Council (PIC), which comprises multiple countries around the world, was established a week prior to the Dayton Accord to ensure that the stipulations of the agreement remain upheld. The PIC has the authority to provide troops and military for the European Union Force in BiH (EUFOR), which operates under the auspices of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO). The last of these acronyms and initialisms belong to the Office of the High Representative (OHR), which was implemented by the PIC and was gifted with a great deal of power, including the ability to remove public officials who are violating the Dayton Agreement in any way.

Here is the interview in its entirety:

Question 1:

Milorad Dodik, a member of the Bosnian presidency from Republika Srpska (RS), has been creating regional tension for quite some time now. He’s been threatening secession and it appears that moves are being taken by RS for that to happen. How likely do you feel this will succeed, and what would it mean for the regional stability and the geopolitical landscape?

Podžić: After the signing of the Dayton Peace Accord, and the difficult talks and negotiations that BiH conducted within the country at the national level, we achieved the decision that the two key foreign policy goals of Bosnia and Herzegovina are membership in the EU and membership in NATO; however, I, being a former soldier, always make an effort to emphasize that our first goal is membership in NATO, and second goal is membership in the EU. And on the basis of our foreign policy goals, we tailored all the structures and conducted reforms within BiH.

One of the most sensitive reforms which were initiated back in 2004 was the defense reform. It was not an easy undertaking as we had to amalgamate three former belligerent militaries into a single armed force, and we were successful in our endeavors thanks to the assistance of our strategic friends—primarily the United States and other allies—and we managed to establish a small professional armed force with the strength of 10,000. And, logically, none of us thought that such armed forces—an armed force of 10,000 men—would be able to defend BiH, hence, the strategic goals were to join the collective defense institutions, specifically membership in NATO, and, in such a way, achieve our defense under the NATO umbrella.

So, we did everything with that in mind, and did our best to demonstrate ourselves as good partners of NATO, and that was actually the situation that we had from 2005 to 2010 when we were offered the status of MAP (membership action plan); however, that was when the problems began. Specifically, NATO laid down the technical condition according to which we were to do the registration of all the prospective sides. That is what we call the side that is designated or defined, as required by the Ministry of Defense and the armed forces in the future, so to register all these sides as state property, whereas the Ministry of Defense would be the title holder.

In my opinion, that was the first mistake, because had such a naive condition not been set to date, today, BiH as a country would be a full-fledged member of NATO. In the meantime—and these were important developments, good developments, or should I say positive developments—our neighbors, Croatia and Montenegro, as well as North Macedonia, which is another country in the region, they all became full-fledged members of NATO. In the meantime, we still have only the republic of Serbia, which has opted to take a neutral position on the issue.

Militar Dodik, who at the time of these developments, was also in power of his party, the party that he leads, was a ruling party as well. He decided to seize that moment and began with the obstruction of the process of integration into NATO. In this period, NATO was focused on bigger global hotspots such as Iraq, Afghanistan, even Syria—and I have to say that we made our own contributions to Iraq and Afghanistan—so NATO neglected, or should I say forgot, that everything in the western Balkans has not been resolved already. However, Milorad Dodik seized such developments in such a situation, and has continued to do so till this day.

In this same period, the other side—and here I’m primarily referring to Russia—decided not to sit idle and it made strong—I should say military as well as intelligence—penetration of the Balkans, particularly BiH, while China and some other countries also became present, in the economic sense, in the Balkans. And I submit to you that Mr, Dodik, a member of the BiH presidency, is one of the key Russian players in the Balkans.

We only think that we in BiH definitely can hope for and can count on the NATO obligation stemming from the Dayton Peace Accords, specifically Annex 1A and Annex 1B, which states that NATO will be responsible for the security of BiH. So, the Dayton Peace Accords are still in force, and according to this agreement, NATO has the obligation to provide security to all of BiH until BiH becomes a full-fledged member of the organization of the alliance. In the meantime, specifically in December 2004, a decision was made to hand over the security and stability mission, and the mission of assistance to the armed forces, and the ammo gained, the defense reforms from NATO to the European force, EUFOR, so this is the EU formation now, which is being implemented under the operational competence of NATO.

So, currently, BiH is a pre-MAP status country, and the condition regarding the registration of defense sides has been put aside, let’s say, and is no longer treated as a condition; however, a member of the presidency, Dodik, has decided to change the policy that he is going to pursue, and he no longer supports full-fledged membership of BiH into NATO. And today, when we see the developments with respect to the invasion by the Russian federation on Ukraine, which is an independent country and was also a candidate for full-fledged membership into NATO, we truly need to be concerned and worried over the actions of the member of the BiH presidency, Dodik.

I fully understand the difficult position of the EU and NATO and how difficult it is to make a decision to get directly involved in Ukraine, because there is no legal way to invoke Article 5, because Ukraine is not a NATO member. So I really do understand the difficulties that they encounter and are faced with, and at the same time I fully appreciate the assistance that they have provided with respect to the provision that is the delivery of weapons, that are to assist President Zelenskyy and the population of Ukraine, which is really fighting courageously and bravely.

On one side, the Ukrainian people, led by their president, Zelenskyy, are really fantastically successful in the resistance that they are still able to demonstrate against the aggression, and I hope that they will be able to uphold the resistance that they are currently showing. But, on the other side, you have a tyrant who is using everything that we have experienced here firsthand, and these things include the destruction of cities, the killing of civilians, and he went even a step further and threatened the use of nuclear weapons, then we really need to be aware of the gravity of the situation.

In fact, three to four days before the invasion, I apparently made a good assessment, and I repeat once again that it is not impossible that this could lead to a Third World War. And it is only thanks to the compliance with the UN Charter and the international laws of war, it’s all because of the refrain approach of NATO we have not reached World War Three. So, at the beginning I actually tried to highlight the difference between BiH and Ukraine, the difference being that in case of BiH, NATO has the legal right to act, the legal right to protect BiH, and in the case of Ukraine, it has no legal grounds to do so.

However, bearing in mind that Putin’s operations are not developing as he envisioned or planned, he practically thought that his blitzkrieg would be more successful. Well, it is not impossible that he could decide to open another front somewhere in the western Balkans. I, of course, hope that such a thing will not happen; however, if it does happen, I would expect an immediate response by NATO and the EU.

However, even in a scenario in which NATO and the EU decide not to assist us, I can tell you that we are experienced soldiers and I’m positive that we will defend our country, and I’m also positive that there can be no peaceful secession, even of the smallest part of our country. No peaceful secession.

QUESTION 2

Is there a plan for the armed forces of BiH to protect the regional boundaries if Republika Srpska continues with the process of secession?

Podžić: When it comes to the mandate, to the mission of the armed forces, the mission of the armed forces is to defend and protect the national borders of BiH. Here, there are no such things as entity borders or regional borders, as you probably were referring to that. When it comes to security in the country, that is the responsibility, or should I say competence, of the security agencies and the Minister of Internal Affairs of Republika Srpska and the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Federation of BiH, but the armed forces are responsible for protection and defense of the national borders.

But there’s a good point to your question. What if we have internal conflict? Then this is what the border situation will be. So, in a situation in which the Ministry of Security, which exists at the national level, that the Ministry of Security needs support of the armed forces, then such an engagement of the armed forces of BiH would need to be approved by the BiH presidency and the BiH parliamentary assistance, and it could be a form of military support of civil authorities within the country. Why did I say that there was a point, that your question was impressive?

Because, currently, Mr. Dodik has blocked the functioning of the BiH presidency and the BiH parliament to reassemble when the parliament is not in session, and therefore they are not able to make any such decisions on the enforcement of the armed forces. So, I believe that this issue should be of great concern to all of us, particularly EUFOR and NATO, and I think that I would like actually to warn NATO and EUFOR that they need to pay serious attention to the situation and consider other elements of the security situation in our country, as well as to act preemptively and in such a way prevent incidence.

QUESTION 3

As much as you’re able to, can you explain the objective of EUFOR troop presence in the country, and where they will be positioned?

Podžić: I think that it would not be correct for me to release or share with anyone plans and locations that are related to international missions, and on the basis of military locations that EUFOR showed interest in, I’m aware of where they would like to be deployed, as I am a soldier as well. I will not release that information now. As you probably know, EUFOR headquarters are located in Camp Butmir, and they have 21 observation posts where they have they soldiers, so the soldiers are distributed in various locations, and in two days I will meet with the EUFOR commander to discuss with him how many soldiers will be deployed to these locations and where else will they be deployed when I’m there speaking about the addition of EUFOR troops. And, I also have to say that whoever ,from NATO ambassadors to UN ambassadors or our friends, asks me, I will always reply and suggest that these troops be deployed to the areas where the people who were exiled in the period from ‘92 to ‘95 have returned to their pre-war homes.

And I will most certainly present these and some other suggestions and proposals of mine to the EUFOR commander; however, it will be up to him to make the final decision.

QUESTION 4

What type of military equipment is being sent for EUFOR? Is the BiH army also being trained to use them?

Podžić: I had an opportunity to see the assets that are being provided to EUFOR, and, yes, the armed forces of BiH know how to handle such equipment, and let me just add that large numbers of our personnel were trained in parts of countries such as the United States, Germany, Turkey, and many other countries, and know how to operate the equipment that is material that is being provided to EUFOR.

QUESTION 5

Under what circumstances will EUFOR be allowed to use force?

Podžić: Well, I’m not right to address for that question, and such a decision will be made definitely by the EUFOR commander following consultations with the shape [of the situation]. And I, as a soldier, would be inclined to think that when, or if, a local incident happens—an instance involving different groups, of different ethnic affiliations, or, god forbid, police from two entities—my logic would be then in such cases EUFOR would engage and respond to such incidences.

QUESTION 6

In what scenario would NATO troops need to be deployed?

Podžić: Well, I think that in cases of EUFOR troops that are present, on the ground or over-the-horizon-forces (backup forces), are not able to handle the situation or respond effectively to the attacks, or if the situation further complicates, or if one of the neighboring countries intervene, here, I’m inclined to think that in such a scenario NATO would deploy its troops, and because that is also what the Dayton peace agreement prescribes.

QUESTION 7

The Bonn Powers from the Peace Implementation Council authorizes the Office of High Representatives to remove public figures from office who are in violation of the Dayton Accord. What do you think is the reason why Christian Schmidt has not done so, and do you feel like such a move is necessary to help quell the rising nationalist movement?

Podžić: Well, I think that after these developments in Ukraine, I think the global order is going to change and that we will see reshuffling of geostrategic interest zones. I'm 100 percent positive about it. And, I’m also aware that this High Representative and his predecessors did not have sufficient political support to do such a thing; however, I also think that after this situation with Ukraine, the overall situation is crystal clear and I really do expect to see a different approach in the coming period.

And, I think that in the region, as well as everyone who is sitting on two chairs, now after the Ukraine developments will have to choose just one chair on which they’re going to sit and decide whether they will be pro democracy and pro developed modern world, or will they be pro dictatorships?